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"Vincent" by Josh Groban

Submitted by

datanoh

On April 29, 2006

Description

On Josh Groban's eponymous album (Reprise, 2001) was a track entitled "Vincent (Starry, Starry Night)" which is a cover of the Don McLean track by the same name.

History

Comment by Bastien
2006-06-18 09:14:11 UTC

How can I double check this?

 
Comment by abbamatic
2006-06-22 01:54:24 UTC

According to my copy of the CD, Josh Groban's self-titled debut is on 143/Warner Bros. Records - and the writing credit for "Vincent (Starry, Starry Night)" is indeed listed as Don McLean.  That song is already in the database at Vincent (Starry Starry Night)

 
Comment by Bastien
2006-06-24 07:59:54 UTC

So:

  • what's the label: 143, reprise or warner bros?
  • what's the catalogue number?
  • what are the credits for the other songs on the album?
 
Comment by abbamatic
2006-06-24 17:50:01 UTC

143 Records is the label owned by producer David Foster and it is distributed either through Warner Bros. or Reprise, depending upon the source you look at (and also the year in question).


All I can say is that the writing on the label of Josh Groban's debut CD, which I've had since its original 2001 release, says:


9 48514-2

copyright 2001 143 Records.

Manufactured and Distributed by Warner Bros. Records, Inc. Warner Music Group. An AOL Time Warner Company.


I believe that 143 switched its distribution over to Reprise at a later date, as Josh Groban's second CD, from 2003, lists the label as being "143 Records/Reprise Records"...even then Reprise is a Warner Music entity. Undoubtedly, newly pressed copies of his first CD say 143/Reprise as well at this point.


As for other songs on the release, I'm not sure why that matters since the song in question is "Vincent (Starry, Starry Night)", but I've doubled checked the songwriting credits listed at www.allmusic.com - and they match the writers credited on the actual CD.


http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&token=ADFEAEE5731CD248A57420C5903D45C4B…


There is at least one other cover track on this CD at first glance - Josh Groban and Charlotte Church's duet on the Carole Bayer Sager/David Foster track entitled "The Prayer", which was originally recorded by Celine Dion & Andrea Bocelli as a duet for the animated Warner Bros. movie "Quest For Camelot" in 1998.  That track has since been covered by Lulu & Russell Watson, and by Donnie McClurkin & Yolanda Adams, among others, which I can investigate more fully at a later time.

 
Comment by Bastien
2006-06-25 14:05:57 UTC

Thanks a lot abbamatic!


  • Label: It's seems clear now that I should choose "143 records".

  • Catalogue number: Can you give me the bar code? I have a feeling the cat number is a part of the bar code.

  • The credits for the other songs: they are relevant because I like to add all covers from an album at once if possible. As you confirm Allmusic is correct, I will use it. (usually we don't accept Allmusic as a source)
 
Comment by abbamatic
2006-06-28 23:20:00 UTC

the bar code is: 0 9362-48154-2 6, which would seem to reflect the 48154 number that allmusic.com lists as the catalog number


upon further investigation there are a couple other covers worth considering on the album, in addition to "The Prayer" which I mentioned in my last response:


--"Jesu, Joy Of Man's Desiring" is a classical Johann Sebastien Bach piece that is on a thousand Christmas albums - I don't know how you guys handle historical Christmas songs...


--"Let Me Fall", written by James Corcoran and Jutras Benoit, is a cover of a song from Cirque De Soleil's "Quidam" album on RCA Victor Records. The CD has a 1996 copyright on it, though some sights say that it was issued in January 1997.


 
Comment by Bastien
2006-07-02 16:32:42 UTC

On Josh Groban's eponymous album (Reprise, 2001) was a track entitled "Vincent (Starry, Starry Night)" which is a cover of the Don McLean track by the same name.


Added

 
Comment by Bastien
2006-07-02 16:43:13 UTC

There is at least one other cover track on this CD at first glance - Josh Groban and Charlotte Church's duet on the Carole Bayer Sager/David Foster track entitled "The Prayer", which was originally recorded by Celine Dion & Andrea Bocelli as a duet for the animated Warner Bros. movie "Quest For Camelot" in 1998.


What I have found uptil now:

Label: Atlantic

UPC: 075678309724

Release date: 1998-05-05


The problem is the duet. There is one version by Dion on the CD, and one by Bocelli, but I first glance I don't see any duet.

 
Comment by abbamatic
2006-07-03 03:20:56 UTC

you seem to be correct about "The Prayer". I don't know to whom the 'original' should be attributed, since both versions appear independently on the soundtrack, issued on the same date.


I did some further investigation to try and figure out why I didn't remember this correctly, and I found out the following:


Celine Dion's version of the song is in English, and appears during the body of the movie, while Bocelli's version is at least partially in Italian (translated by Tony Renis and Alberto Testa) and appears over the closing credits. Because of that info, if we want to choose one version as the 'first', I'd go with Dion's, since hers appears both earlier in the movie and the soundtrack - and because hers was the first version in the actual native language in which the song was written.


I also figured out why I remembered it as a duet between them - and its because they DID issue a duet of the song performed together on Celine Dion's Christmas "These Are Special Times" CD on 550 Music/Epic in November of 1998 (cat. # BK 69523). Subsequently, the same duet was issued on a 1999 Bocelli CD...AND, when the song won the Golden Globe in early 1999 for Best Song From a Movie, and was nominated for an Oscar later that winter - it was performed on both awards shows as a Dion/Bocelli duet. Basically, they covered their own song.

 
Comment by Bastien
2006-07-06 11:04:02 UTC

Celine Dion's version of the song is in English, and appears during the body of the movie, while Bocelli's version is at least partially in Italian (translated by Tony Renis and Alberto Testa) and appears over the closing credits. Because of that info, if we want to choose one version as the 'first', I'd go with Dion's, since hers appears both earlier in the movie and the soundtrack - and because hers was the first version in the actual native language in which the song was written.


I follow your reasoning and added Dion as original.

 
Comment by Bastien
2006-07-06 11:08:31 UTC

I also figured out why I remembered it as a duet between them - and its because they DID issue a duet of the song performed together on Celine Dion's Christmas "These Are Special Times" CD on 550 Music/Epic in November of 1998 (cat. # BK 69523). Subsequently, the same duet was issued on a 1999 Bocelli CD...AND, when the song won the Golden Globe in early 1999 for Best Song From a Movie, and was nominated for an Oscar later that winter - it was performed on both awards shows as a Dion/Bocelli duet. Basically, they covered their own song.


The sample I heard was too short to hear Bocelli's part... does he sing in English or Italian? (it matters for the cover hierarchy)

 
Comment by abbamatic
2006-07-06 23:40:58 UTC

i checked the version from Celine's "These ARe Special Times" and its actually hard to classify:


Celine sings predominantly in English and Andrea predominantly in Italian - but they join each other for occasional lines and a chorus in the song where she sings in Italian with him - and in other parts he sings in English with her. I checked the version on his record too, via Napster, and it is the same version as the one on Celine's CD. So, their duet version should definitely include the Italian translators as part of the writing team.


FYI, I don't know how many of your members are US-based, but the American version of Napster is now a 'legitimate' music-downloading site - and, for free as of a few months ago - U.S. based members can join the site and listen to streaming full-length songs up to 5 times per song without purchasing (after that, you'd be cut off from listening to the song for free). There are some songs for which it seems like they only have permission for 30 second samples. But the vast majority of songs in their database are available as full versions for free. By no means do they have everything - like most of the big download sites, the emphasis is major labels and records that are still in print. This feature really makes it easy to check for covers! I don't think they've opened up this feature of their site to the rest of the world yet.

 
Comment by Bastien
2006-07-10 08:13:24 UTC

I also figured out why I remembered it as a duet between them - and its because they DID issue a duet of the song performed together on Celine Dion's Christmas "These Are Special Times" CD on 550 Music/Epic in November of 1998 (cat. # BK 69523).


Added the cover, but I have a problem with the album. I could set the release on 550 Music or on Columbia... what makes more sense?


Some background info: http://www.lavrsen.dk/celine/collection.php

 
Comment by abbamatic
2006-07-11 04:13:28 UTC

the database already has celine's album in it - and lists it as being Columbia, so you could just leave it 'as is'. 


of the 12 celine dion albums in the database, only four are listed with any label at all - and two of those say "Sony", which although the parent company of all the labels in question, isn't the official "label" according to your Celine reference site, for any of the issues of either of the ones for which it is listed. 


i think its pretty clear that in the u.s., the release in question should be attributed to 550 Music, but in other parts of the world, including Celine's home country of Canada, it is on Columbia.


i have no idea how we go about discerning what country celine is signed through from the '90s onward, although clearly she initially signed through canada.  the bulk of her money has been made through the u.s. for many years now, so who knows - she could be signed more through the u.s. now.


on the other hand, she sometimes still releases french language records to the world that are only afterthoughts or secondary releases in the u.s.


i read in your guidelines section that you wish to get the label that is actually the holder of the official contract with the artist - its not always their home country (for example, Cher's "Believe" album was initially made through Warner in UK or Europe, not in the U.S.).


anyway, i don't have an answer here - other than to pick one or the other and maybe, in parentheses, indicate which part of the world we are crediting for the label, i.e. Columbia (Canadian/European label) or 550 Music (U.S.)


I could argue that the main headquarters of most major music labels in the world are in the U.S. - and that all of them have largely developed as U.S. companies before spreading globally.  Therefore, in the case of all other things being equal, going with the U.S. label is not a bad idea unless the recording clearly originated elsewhere.


Anyway, various rambling thoughts - any further thoughts on your end?

 
Comment by Bastien
2006-07-12 20:41:41 UTC

Yes, a few thoughts:


1) First of all the current labels in the database are not a good reference. We have only recently started to pay attention to labels and catalogue numbers. So if you see Sony and you know it's the parent company and not the actual record label, I invite you to report this on "Report errors".


2) You are right that we try to discern the record label Celine Dion actually signed with.... if all release dates are the same. In this case we have no information about concrete release dates so that's what we'll do.


3) I have also noticed that 550music is for releases in the US, Columbia in Canada and other parts of the world.


So what do we do know... contacting Céline Dion specialists I suppose....


Contacted Kenneth Jahn Lavrsen (http://www.lavrsen.dk/celine/collection.php), let's here what he has to say.

 
Comment by Limbabwe
2012-11-24 07:20:40 UTC

All things seem to be sorted and all covers added.


Josh Groban

The Prayer


Thanks for posting!


Your secondhandsongs team

 
Change by shs
2017-02-12 13:07:14 UTC
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